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The Rapture…To Pre or not to Pre, that is the question…

6 April, 2010

Heh, funny title, not so funny topic.

Most people of faith (in God) seem to have their OWN ideas based on what THEY understand The Bible to say about the end times.

I also realize that this topic is STILL being discussed today as it was when Jesus was teaching about His ‘Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven’ to the disciples.

So why bring this topic up if it seems that ‘…no one will know the time…’; why worry about it?

Well, worry is a sin, because it is fear-based, not faith(trust and love) based. Without faith(trusting with love) it is impossible to please God….there ya’ go.

So…I sinned. I began to worry 😦 about what is to come – what Christians can and may face in the next 3.5 years.

I have prayed for our country, its leaders, its people, and those that we (as a country) are supposed to reach out towards with love and compassion (faith, hope and love = trust), but I am sad to see America ever more falling into a pagan occult, mystery school, belief system…daily…despite prayers and supplication. Maybe we need more peeps prayin’?

So interestingly, this topic has been on my mind a lot lately as I meditate on the scriptures to take their literal meanings of this collective topic, ‘The Rapture’ and tribulation years ahead, the Antichrist and his war with the saints, with the Return of Jesus to finally set up his kingdom here on earth.

All I can say really is….wow. There is soooooo much info in this ‘internet’ that I can feel even my faith being swayed somewhat, from one side to the other, case after case for The Rapture, against The Rapture, before the 7 years of tribulation, in the middle of it all, after the 7 years…yadda yadda…

My, and I guess a general consensus of most professing Christians, seem to hold belief in The Rapture, ‘Pre-Trib’. I believe that if there is a rapture before the tribulation, and the revelation of the antichrist when in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9 NASB it says:

2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2:2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

2:5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

2:6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,…

I believe that if there is a Rapture, then it will probably happen during the Feast of Trumpets (quite possibly this year 2010 based on many reasons) to fulfill that feast prophetically.

This also jives as it is the ONLY one dealing with a new moon cycle so ‘no one can know what day or hour’.

It also jives with the only feast that ends with a last long trumpet blast!

I also believe that this euphemism ‘no one can know what day or hour’ is also referring to this feast of Trumpets, as it was a common expression when discussed.

It also jives with ’10’ – in 20 10 (actually there are three 10’s in 2010 10+10 and 10). Here’s a little ‘sumin-sumin’ for ya to read about the number 10 and it’s significance if you didn’t know, from here

Thus wherever ten is found this completeness of order is also seen. Ten implies completeness of order, nothing lacking and nothing over. It signifies that the cycle is complete and that everything is in its proper order. Thus ten represents the perfection of divine order.

Ten is the first of the triangular numbers which has a center. A triangular number is one that can be arranged into a perfect equilateral triangle. Start with a single counter (coin, marble, or indeed anything, but round objects work best). Then add a row of two under it to form a triangle. Thus three is a triangular number, but has no center. Then add a row of three under that, thus six is a triangular number but also has no center. Add a row of four underneath and we have a triangle of ten, which has a center. The central counter of the “ten” triangle is the fifth. The progression of triangular numbers continues on to infinity. It turns out that every third triangular number has a central position. However ten is the only on in which the central position is occupied by the half of the total number. Thus among triangular numbers ten is marked as unique and special. Starting with the number one, ten is the fourth triangular number. Thus ten partakes to some extent of the symbolic meaning of the number four, the number of the world. It is our natural, physical bodies with ten fingers and toes that make it “natural” to use a counting system based upon tens.

Of the four “perfect numbers” (3,7,10,12) the symbolism of ten – ordinal perfection is the only perfection that natural humans can even approach. While man’s perfection falls far short of Gods perfection in all things, we can strive and achieve some measure of success with ordinal perfection. We can form a perfect cube, a perfect triangle, and so on. And even if we fall short of perfection in the actuality of these things the conceptual, or mathematical perfection of such is attainable for us. We cannot aspire to divine perfection on our own. We cannot aspire to spiritual perfection on our own. We cannot attain governmental perfection without God. Thus ordinal perfection, as symbolized by the number ten stands out as linked with the natural, the carnal (of the flesh, as our ten fingers literally are) and the world, and yet still perfect.

Ten is also a tetrahedral number. If we start with one marble and then add a layer of three marbles under it we have a perfect tetrahedron of four marbles. If we then add another layer of six marbles under that we have a perfect tetrahedron of ten marbles. Such arrangements occur naturally in atomic structure of metals and other materials. In the physical sciences such an arrangement is called “close packed hexagonal” or cph for short. You may notice that each successive layer that is added is the next triangular number of marbles. Thus tetrahedral numbers are the sums of the triangular numbers. In the same way that ten is the fourth triangular number it is the third tetrahedral number. Thus ten is linked with the first of the “perfect numbers”.

The Ten Commandments

These commandments are not th whole of the law, but they are the foundation for all the rest of the law and in that sense they sum up the entire law. It is worth noting that the total number of words in the ten commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) is 132. This is exactly twice 66, the number of books in the Bible. Further the sum of the verse numbers is (3 +4 +5 +6 +7 +8 +9 +10 +11 +12 +13 +14 +15 +16 +17 = 150) one hundred and fifty, the number of Psalms in the book of Psalms. This points to the fact that the “Law” was not complete without the wisdom writings, and the scripture not complete until the books of the New Testament were also completed. The number of verses used to give the ten commandments is (17 – 2 = 15) fifteen, exactly one tenth of the sum of those verses. It may be mere coincidence that the numeric value of the first commandment is 696, which is equal to the sum of the tenth triangular number (55) plus the tenth square number (100) plus the tenth hexagram (541). i.e. 696 = 55 + 100 + 541.
Ten Righteous

From a scriptural point of view we note that the Lord was prepared to spare the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah if but ten righteous people were found therein.

And he [Abraham] said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he [God] said, I will not destroy it for ten’s sake.

Genesis 18:32

It may be mere coincidence that the sum of the chapter and the verse numbers for this is 18 + 32 = 40. A multiple of ten and also a number with significance in its own right – trial and testing. A significance that is very appropriate to the verse itself.
The Tenth Verse

The tenth verse of the bible is part of the third “day of creation”. We have already noted that ten is linked with the first of the perfect numbers.

And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:10

If ten is ordinal perfection then it speaks of a perfection of order, a perfection of arrangement. In this verse we see that God has made separated and arranged the earth and the sea. Also we see that God sees that it was good.
The Tenth Chapter

The tenth chapter of the Bible is largely a genealogy of the descendants of Noah. Here we have a list, of the organization, the structure, of the family trees of the patriarchs from this period. This in itself is an apt use of the symbolism of the number ten. Also, this genealogy starts with Noah, the tenth generation from Adam.

There are exactly 100 names of people mentioned in this chapter(1). Several of the people are named more than once but the total, with the repeats comes to ten times ten. Also note that Noah, the tenth from Adam, is both the first name in the list and the last. Thus the chapter starts with the tenth generation and also finishes on it. Further there are exactly twenty different places(2) mentioned in the chapter.
Ten Generations

Noah was the tenth generation of the patriarchs and completed the antediluvian age. This list of ten patriachs contains a hidden massage within the meanings of their names. In particular the names and their meanings are:

Name Meaning:

1 Adam Man

2 Seth appointed

3 Enos mortal

4 Cainan sorrow

5 Mahalaleel, the blessed god

6 Jared shall come down

7 Enoch teaching

8 Methuselah, his death shall bring

9 Lamech, the sorrowful

10 Noah, comfort
From Noah’s son Shem to Abraham is also ten generations, which completes the age before the covenant.

Ten Passovers

While the Passover was to be observed every year, only ten specific Passovers are recorded in the Bible. The following is a chronological listing of the recorded passovers in the Bible. The first is of course in Egypt, when the passover was first instituted by the Lord.
(1) The First (1)

1And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, 2This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. 3Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: 4…

Exodus 12:1-3…

Note that the taking of the lamb in preparation for the Passover was to be on the tenth day of the month. Also note in verse 6, that the whole congregation was to kill the lamb, just as Jesus was to die for all. The 6th commandment of the ten is ‘thou shalt not kill’. and here in verse 6 we have the directions that the Jews would unwittingly follow as they killed Jesus.) Not only was the passover to be a reminder of what the Lord did for them when He delivered them from Egypt but it was also like a flashing neon sign, pointing to what Jesus would do once and for all.

13And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. 14And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Exodus 12:13-14

The word token in verse 13 is the Hebrew word twao – owth meaning a sign, signal, a distinguishing mark, banner, remembrance, miraculous sign, omen, warning, token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof. It occurs 79 times in 77 verses in the OT. Its numeric value is 407 = 11 x 37. The first occurance is Genesis 1:14, the last Ezekiel 20:20, interestingly the feast of unleavened bread, which the passover starts, begins on the 14th day of the first month and ends on the 20th. What’s more in Exodus 12, where the passover is first introduced, it is explained in the first 14 verses. Then the next verses up to verse 20 explain the seven days feast of unleavened bread. Exodus 12:43-51 Further passover regulations… not one bone to be broken. John 1:29 John the baptist introduces Jesus as “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” 1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out the leaven, for you are new “For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:” 1 Peter 1:19 We are not redemmed with anything that can perish “But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:” We note the emphasis on the Lord, vs1 – the Lord spoke unto Moses, vs11 – it is the Lord’s passover, vs12 – I am the Lord, vs14 – it is a feast unto the Lord. Compare this with the first of the Ten Commandments. Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(2) The Second (2)

1And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the first month of the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying, 2Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season. 3In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it. 4And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, that they should keep the passover. 5And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.

Numbers 9:1-5

On this occasion more detailed laws were also given about how someone who was ritually unclean or on a journey to observe the Passover. Also if a foreigner was among the people and was willing to take the Passover then they were to do so.

And if a stranger shall sojourn among you, and will keep the passover unto the LORD; according to the ordinance of the passover, and according to the manner thereof, so shall he do: ye shall have one ordinance, both for the stranger, and for him that was born in the land.

Numbers 9:14

Thus not only do we see that while two is the number of division or difference, Gods law is without fear or favor all were equally able to partake of the passover. This showed that the sacrifice would cover all who were obedient. Just as Jesus’s sacrifice covers all who are obedient. This really points forward to the New Covenant.
(3) The Third (3)

10And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho. 11And they did eat of the old corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched corn in the selfsame day. 12And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land; neither had the children of Israel manna any more; but they did eat of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year.

Joshua 5:10-12

This passover was observed just as the people came into the Promised land after wandering in the wilderness for forty years. It marked the changeover from relying on the Lord to provide their every need in the wilderness, and eating manna every day: to living off the land, the promised land. They still had to rely on the Lord every day, for they were promised that they would takeover the land as they went forward. Thus their victories in battle and war only came about by trusting and obeying the Lord. But they now were living off the promised land rather than living off the promise of the land. This represented the fulfillment of the promise to them.
(4) The Fourth (4)

1And Hezekiah sent to all Israel and Judah, and wrote letters also to Ephraim and Manasseh, that they should come to the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, to keep the passover unto the LORD God of Israel. 2For the king had taken counsel, and his princes, and all the congregation in Jerusalem, to keep the passover in the second month.

2 Chronicles 30:1-2

This was the first Passover that had been observed by the people for many years. King Ahab had done wickedly and worshiped other “gods”. However when his son Hezekiah finally became king he renewed and restored the temple and commanded the priests sanctify themselves so they could offer the sacrifices as they should under the law. So even though they could not keep the passover on the first month which was the ordained time for it, we read in later verses that the Lord blessed them and accepted their efforts all the same.

18For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one 19That prepareth his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary. 20And the LORD hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.

2 Chronicles 30:18-19

The passover was the Old Testament remembrance of the deliverance of the Lord. It is a pattern for the sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf, which we remember when we take communion. However, we see that it is not the observance of a ritual or the symbols we share that save us. But rather the Lords merciful and loving response to our sincere approach to Him.
(5) The Fifth (5)

17And the children of Israel that were present kept the passover at that time, and the feast of unleavened bread seven days. 18And there was no passover like to that kept in Israel from the days of Samuel the prophet; neither did all the kings of Israel keep such a passover as Josiah kept, and the priests, and the Levites, and all Judah and Israel that were present, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 19In the eighteenth year of the reign of Josiah was this passover kept.

2 Chronicles 35:17-19

This passover was a little like the previous one that was recorded, it was when the nation once again turned back to the Lord and He blessed them. However the Scripture states that this passover was like no other since the days of Samuel the Prophet.
(6) The Sixth (6)

19And the children of the captivity kept the passover upon the fourteenth day of the first month. 20For the priests and the Levites were purified together, all of them were pure, and killed the passover for all the children of the captivity, and for their brethren the priests, and for themselves. 21And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat, 22And kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with joy: for the LORD had made them joyful, and turned the heart of the king of Assyria unto them, to strengthen their hands in the work of the house of God, the God of Israel.

Ezra 6:19-22

This was the first passover to be celebrated by those who returned to Jerusalem after the captivity in Jerusalem. It began the unbroken observance of the passover in Jerusalem unto the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.
(7) The Seventh (7)

41Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. 42And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. 43And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

Luke 2:41-43

The first recorded passover in the New Testament is also the time that jesus stayed behind to learn with the teachers at the temple. When his parents find him at the temple he responds with:

And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?

Luke 2:49
(8) The Eighth (8)

13And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables; 16And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise. 17And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up. 18Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

John 2:13-19

This is the notable occasion of Jesus throwing the money changers out of the temple. Further it is the occasion where Jesus prophesies his resurrection three days after his death.
(9) The Ninth (9)

3And Jesus went up into a mountain, and there he sat with his disciples. 4And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh. 5When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat? 6And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do. 7Philip answered him, Two hundred pennyworth of bread is not sufficient for them, that every one of them may take a little. 8One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, saith unto him, 9There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many? 10And Jesus said, Make the men sit down. Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand. 11And Jesus took the loaves; and when he had given thanks, he distributed to the disciples, and the disciples to them that were set down; and likewise of the fishes as much as they would. 12When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost. 13Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.

John 6:3-13

The Bible does not make it absolutely clear, but it may be that Jesus fed the five thousand their passover feast. If not then he still miraculously fed 5,000 a feast near the time of the passover. However, if it was the passover feast, then we have the perfect passover lamb (Jesus) feeding the people their passover feast. Not only did he die as a substitution for us on the cross, but he also satisfied the Old Testament pattern by literally providing the passover meal for the people, as the passover lamb did under the Old Testament law.
(10) The Tenth (10)

1And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, 2Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified. 3Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, 4And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him. 5But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people.

Matthew 26:1-5

The tenth passover recorded in the Bible (chronologically) is of course the one where Jesus was crucified. It is the fulfillment of the pattern in the one, once and for all perfect sacrifice of Jesus for our sins. Thus ten completes the pattern, once and forever.

Sept 8-18th 2010 also starts the 10 days of repentance….(encapsulating a previous major event’s anniversary in America – 9/11)…this is not happening on or near this ‘anniversary’ untill 2018…now there’s a co-incidence?

(Just saw on my calender that August 6 2010 is when orthodox christians celebrate the Transfiguration of Jesus...Hmmm, now that may be a date to watch as it occurs on a weekend sabbath period)…

Then Jesus will actually return for everyone to see fulfilling the next feast – Atonement – possibly in 2010 (if we are in the tribulation already, Obama is the antichrist, or just speeds up time?) but probably (Sept 18/19th, 2018 then Tabernacles in Sept 23 – Oct 2, 2018…but that’s just what I think…don’t start some kooky thing based on this…it’s more for speculation and interesting conversations, as well as, a little preaching of the good news for good measure:)

Here’s a copy of the Feast schedules : schedule_feasts_festivals_2010_2020 to peruse at your leisure….

(However, I (and family), will be ready for any experience – be Pre, Mid or Post-Trib‘. God’s will on earth, as it is in heaven…)

“Why be ‘double-minded’ my brother?”, you may ask. “Don’t you know that all this topic creates is division and instability in God’s kingdom?”

Yes I do understand that the discussion of this topic causes division in the body of Christ – one supposed to have no spot, wrinkle or blemish, much less division but to be in one mind and one accord….unity.

But I don’t see this stance being double-minded and unstable.

Why not be ready for whatever comes your way, good or bad? It seems that we as Christians need to trust that God will take care of us, in good or bad, via rapture or protection in tribulation?

This jives more with what is undeniable and unifying in the way Paul taught on being content, and learning to trust in God in every situation. Here’s a snippet from

Contentment is a great simplifier. It helps focus body and soul on the proper priorities. It calms the restless desire for more. It satisfies the heart with the present provision of God. It deflates pride, drains the drive of selfish ambition, and relaxes the grip of anxiety. Contentment decreases our dependence upon things and circumstances, and increases a restful dependence upon Christ.

The apostle Paul spoke of developing contentment in his own experience when he said, “I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content. I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” (Philippians 4:11-13)…

…Don’t confuse such contentment with apathy or laziness, for elsewhere the apostle reminds his readers how he worked whenever possible to meet his own physical needs (1 Thessalonians 2:9; 2 Thessalonians 3:7-8). What Paul models and advocates is a circumstance-conquering contentment that does not depend on how much there is to eat, spend, wear, count, collect, or touch.

When a person can be content “everywhere and in all things,” whether full or hungry, abounding or suffering need, he knows a source of contentment beyond anything the world can provide or understand. True contentment in all places and circumstances is found only, as Paul put it, “through Christ who strengthens me.” Only Jesus could have given Paul the contentment to sing at midnight in a filthy, rat-infested prison, with his feet in stocks and his back mercilessly and illegally bloodied (see Acts 16:25). Christ, and Christ alone, can strengthen our souls to be content in any and all situations. But this contentment doesn’t come unawares. We must be willing to learn it, and to learn it through Christ.”

I couldn’t have said it better. In fact it seems like, to the best of my memory, that God was more with an protected His people during times of tribulation than he ‘raptured’ them out of tribulation, even though this happened too…

So, I say, be ready one way or the other. The sign of the times point to storms ahead! We all can prob’ly agree on that anyway.

Get 3 months worth of supplies per person in your family together while there is time.Then store more, there will always be someone or even another family God directs us to help…be cautious though, b/c goods will BE money – i.e. trade for those who won’t take Verichip health/money care plan…if there is no Rapture….

I’m not a ‘violent’ person, but I DO advocate the use of guns to protect personal (family/loved ones) life, and property from theft – if necessary, against ALL enemies to my house, foreign or domestic.

I believe in love thy neighbors – even enemies, and hiding out/getting away from a fight is always better than fighting, but I don’t believe for one second that my ancestors died for me to live in peace so that I could just hand that prize of great price back to my potential captors? Not gonna’ do it. Guns and Ammo are good things in the hands of good people. They can mean the difference between life and death in the wild woods or wild streets. Should have something (keep it as legal as you can too – avoid all appearances of evil)…all I’m sayin’ if there is no Rapture

Find a way to have emergency power and clean drinking water in your homes. Pay off the bills. Be self-sufficient once again with your faith, hope and love = your trust in God. If there is no Rapture.

If there IS a rapture, which is where my faith is, then all those supplies will be left for someone who can use them, Bibles and tracks included of course! If not, it won’t hurt my faith because I know that God won’t let temptation be too much for any of us and HE will ALWAYS be with us anyway.

After all, if He died for us, we should be able to boldly die for Him:

28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but who cannot kill the soul; but above all, be afraid of him who can destroy both the soul and the body in hell.
29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And yet not one of them will fall on the ground without your Father’s will.
30But so far as you are concerned, even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
31Therefore fear not; you are much more important than many sparrows.
32Everyone therefore who will acknowledge me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
33But whoever will deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father in heaven.
Yeshua (The Christ)
Matthew 10:28-32
(Lamsa – CW)We will be with Him forever anyway, HOORAY

This is the way America was and, IMHO, is supposed to be like anyway – a nation under Jehovah,God of Everything. BY working with OUR hands and OUR sweat, we can help those who need, because we won’t depend on others, the supermarkets and stores so much, we learn how to be resourse-FULL again. Not waste-FULL.

We have outsourced most of our industrialization and life skills to other lesser developed (war ravaged) countries, and they have become slaves…I though we got rid of that industry…or so we’ve been taught in schools…;)

We have forgotten how to be creative because it seems to be bought then sold to us through fashion designers and such. Most art in high school nowaday’s is a JOKE to me – some students don’t even know what 3 point perspective even is, until shown an example from a comic book…lol. (Treburn winces, slaps his forehead and shakes his head…”Ohhhh brother”)….God help us!

I realize that it’s not much, but it’s all I have for today.

Cheers and God bless! He is returning soon anyway!

6 Comments leave one →
  1. 7 April, 2010 15:17

    “I DO believe that it is better to be somewhat equally equipped, as possible, to the officials ‘calling the shots’, and that we Biblically an believers become ‘exempt from man’s laws’ (on this earth) when THEY (lawmakers) no longer abide by THEIR OWN laws (lawbreakers) or when persecution in one city becomes too great.”

    When the Ten Commandments were given they were scribed on two tablets; it’s not that God ran out of room on one tablet and had to finish it on the next. 🙂 The first 4 were scribed on one tablet to signify man’s obligation to obey God’s expressed commands without compromise – (God’s laws)
    1. Do not worship other gods
    2. Do not make any idols
    3. Do not misuse the name of God
    4. Keep the Sabbath holy

    We require governments that does not impeach on these laws, we must be free to worship without being dictated to, unfortunately the powers that be don’t readily abide by these and persecution ensues.

    The other 6 commandments are really (man’s laws) and they are just as important than the former 4, we require governments that protects our rights under these laws, again the powers that be see it fit to say that these also have no place in good governance (whatever that means).
    5. Honor your mother and father – we are herded like cattle to observe mother’s and father’s day!
    6. Do not murder – ever heard of friendly fire and capital punishment?
    7. Do not commit adultery – tooooooooooo permissive
    8. Do not steal – a way of life for many, unfortunately those S.O.B.S in Wall Street are exempt
    9. Do not lie – check out the dictionary meaning for politician
    10. Do not covet – marketing has thrown this out in their ad campaigns

    Despite the failures of world governments to uphold these commandments, we have an obligation to uphold them without compromise. Our salvation depends on it (if there’s no rapture) as most definitely we would be targets. What can I tell you but to flee to safety and don’t look back!

    In His Grace


    • 8 April, 2010 00:15

      Right on brotha! ‘Camping’ ain’t so bad – with the right gear. Been doin’ that a while now too.
      Yeah those first 4 commandment pretty much sums up all the rest of life if one just thinks about ’em for a second or two…when you add what Jesus said the greatest 2 were….



  2. 6 April, 2010 21:58

    “I believe in love thy neighbors – even enemies, and hiding out/getting away from a fight is always better than fighting, but I don’t believe for one second that my ancestors died for me to live in peace so that I could just hand that prize of great price back to my potential captors? Not gonna’ do it. Guns and Ammo are good things in the hands of good people.”

    Just a thought regarding your statement above, trust in Jesus for EVERYTHING and you’ll be alright. No need for weapons of any kind, remember: (Rev 13:10) If any man is for captivity, into captivity he goeth: if any man shall kill with the sword, with the sword must he be killed. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    None of us are GOOD and we are need of constant repentance, ammo and other weapons don’t belong in the hands of faithful believers: (Luk 18:19) And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, even God. Jesus has provided us with ALL the armaments that we will ever need: (Eph 6:11) Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    In His Grace


    • 7 April, 2010 13:07

      Thank you for your reply and helping MY faith! It is awesome to hear from believers around the world!
      I too, also agree with this p.o.v. as it is scriptural.

      Yes, there are no good people – that’ s why we have Jesus.
      But, Jesus does make people better…they SHOULD have a better grasp on their life and others’ (gun use…)

      This is why I don’t believe in military preemptive strikes. Or CIA (FBI,SWAT,etc.) ‘black ops’.

      It leaves people with no choice but to fight back – remember Peter who did a ‘preemptive strike’ on the guard? He felt cornered, I’m sure, and probably was ready to fight to the death to ‘rescue his savior’ – ironically who was there to rescue Peter:)…

      So I believe in Jesus picking up my battles and fighting them for me….

      I HAVE BEEN beat up/on, ridiculed, been callled names and spit on for His name sake…without fighting back or defending myself – demonstrating love and forgiveness. How many Christians in America can say that – and funny enough, most of the time that happened it was from professing believers…unreal.

      I realized I don’t need to fight against that. I grew up with that persecution…I expect that persecution, but I probably should edit my post now, huh? 🙂

      I believe that the Rapture WILL occur and I won’t HAVE to use guns ‘cept for targets and hunting anyways from now till then…but,
      I AM prepared to use them if necessary but ONLY as a last resort… (we live on the edge of the woods and have bears and wolves ‘saunter’ through our neighborhood at night as well). Because of our location it gets really dark and we have had a few break-in’s in our neighborhood. So I think we are justified here in our gun ownership and use.

      I DO believe that it is better to be somewhat equally equipped, as possible, to the officials ‘calling the shots’, and that we Biblically an believers become ‘exempt from man’s laws’ (on this earth) when THEY (lawmakers) no longer abide by THEIR OWN laws (lawbreakers) or when persecution in one city becomes too great.

      We are instructed to move on to the next city, not ‘fight it out’….so…guns are good against wild animals while on that ‘move’, and robbers….since we (believers) realize that we don’t wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities and evil things trying to exalt themselves above the knowledge of God – as you quoted – (Eph. 6:11) Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil….

      As far as the verse in Rev 13:10 – ‘If any man is for captivity, into captivity he goeth: if any man shall kill with the sword, with the sword must he be killed. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”; I think I would rather escape to another place as first option :), then, to die by the ‘sword’ – doing what I believe to be right – protecting my family and loved ones from attackers/thieves – animals or human.
      Captivity is gonna be worse than death by the sword – as my research (and others) has proven to me. Our nation is embracing the prison camp mentality of Hitler’s (antichrist’s) regime….so if there isn’t a rapture (I believe there IS however), we know Christians are on the hit list, first and foremost. then it’s time to ‘GET OUTTA’ DODGE!’

      All seriousness aside, er, joking..

      So, I know about not supposed to be date setting…but, be praying and watchin’ this year for Pentecost (May 18th – 20th) and Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanna – Sept 8-10) this year…hope to be ‘launching’ to heaven between now and then – perhaps even in these ‘weekend periods’, but if not, we’re ready to go…Hope to meet ya there soon 🙂

      Thanks agian for your insight and comments!


  3. internet elias permalink
    6 April, 2010 14:37

    World is gonna be business as usual as it was in the ‘days of Noe.’ The folks kept living it up…having a ball…getting married…..committing adultery…playing ball….monking meek old Noah and his belief that the ‘end is coming.’ Today..we continue to see the whole of society of men continue to degenerate. Satan is already spreading his evil rule, by the permission of God, around the world…in preparation for the final government of the world..Satan’s Son…Anti-Christ.(God has a Son…so Satan has to have a Son. He replicates everything God does…even the Holy Trinity. Satan’s Trinity is 666) It will all be very political. It will be through the ‘changing of times and laws.’

    But here is the kicked! If the individual Christian cannot resist evil today…here and now…what hope have we when it really gets touch…as is in China and many nations who are experiencing death for the profession of Christianity. We continue to sin, sin, sin…because it feeds our pleasures. We are fat, selfish, spoiled, judgemental, prideful, addicted, hateful, greedy, and we BOASTFULLY claim GRACE to cover our rotten and sinful practices. Hmmmm.

    The scripure you used shows the ‘man of sin’ must be revealed before Christ’s return. That ‘Anti-Christ’ is the ‘miry-clay’ tipped toes of the image of a man seen by Nebuchadnezzer in Danial Chapter two. The miry-clay is the final and total state of the progressive degeneration of man’s government…allowed by God…to mark the end of the days of man on earth.

    But we who encounter persecution whether by slander or fiery furnace…God remains our rock, shield, deliverer, fortress, and strength. He will never ‘leave us nor forsake us.’

    Good post.

    Carolyn /


    • 6 April, 2010 15:11

      Thanks Carolyn,I appreciate your insight as well.
      God has been having me study about this (have been looking at Jesus’ words for his disciples)…We can be sure what Jesus prayed for, He received.
      Here’s part of Jesus’ last recorded prayer before He took up His cross for us.

      John 17:15: “I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that
      You should keep them from the evil one.”

      John 17:20: “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me
      through their word …”….We are more than over comers by HIs blood and the power of our testimony.

      Ready in season and out – best ‘plan’ as I can see! Yeah I know it will get tough – it seems that only way to get this fat,lazy,sin filled ‘body’ of ours to wake up,move and shape-up is to undergo some ‘refining process’…unfortunately. If we could serve God with our whole heart, mind and body.

      If only more preachers would teach.. “You probably will get ‘beat up’ verbally or physically for the name of Jesus”….maybe we’d have a stronger body.

      Thank you God for Your grace – it’s more than enough!


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